2025 RULES: Multi-Positions

[Goodell]

There may be more multi-positional considerations ahead as Travis Hunter looks like he'll be a first round draft pick having played both sides of the field in college with expressed intention of doing so in the NFL also. We'll probably have to make off-season rules discussion changes here before knowing for sure if he ends up doing that -- or if he's more of a full-time CB and just couple plays on offense as we've seen others in the past. Players get one grade in madden and here, so it mostly is about their primary position. Don't know that would change if he's full-time both (different grades at different positions instead of one overall) but can't really see us setup for that.

There are also some players in the league like Scott Matlock playing both defensive line and jumping in as full-back. Some other players in recent years have had occasional roles in certain goal line situations, etc.

We had more positional eligibility a couple years ago, even with some RBs who shift out to receiver slots and catch a lot of balls being labeled as RB/WRs here. After some discussion and not wanting players to essentially double their value if they applied to two different grade areas, we scaled that back to not having a player with eligibility in two different grade areas (like S/LB).

While doing that, I mentioned I'd hoped to someday adjust the depth chart calculations to perhaps factor in some of those complications. Maybe a S/LB could be a starter in the secondary grade and also serve as a backup in the front 7. Wouldn't make sense for him to be starter at both as there aren't two of him in starting position roles, but if he played a lot at LB too could contribute to that as backup in that area. I haven't accomplished that yet but might be time to focus on that more with multi-positions becoming more of a thing.

We can either keep things the same while we monitor guys like T.Hunter to see if we should change in the future, or jump into giving more players more positional flexibility and adjust our calculations to allow them to contribute in some way to different areas if they do in reality.

[sillegrant]

It is interesting to consider the implementation of this approach. I think that for now, he will primarily be a cornerback while also seeing some time on offense. As such, he should be categorized as a CB, with any offensive contributions recorded as receptions, yards, etc only if he is one of the starter/backups in the depth chart.

Given the uncertainty around how teams will utilize him, it is difficult to make a definitive decision in advance. Teams appear to have varying plans for his role.

Another possible solution for this site could be allowing individuals to select his primary position while designating him as a backup at the secondary position based on their team’s needs. The secondary position would only add a fraction of what he would add if he was starting. So if he added .4 to the WR rating, then it would only be a .2 add to WR if he started CB. We can make a final decision after his first year and we really know what he is going to do in the NFL.

[larry linke]

I voted no. We dont know how the team that drafts him is going to use him or how Madden is going to handle this. If his CB rating is 90 does a part time WR get a 90. I feel it is better to watch this play out for a year.

Larry

[devosee]

I think voting no is tragic - and here's why:

Travis Hunter (if he plays both sides of the ball) is a unicorn. I would say 90% of what's going to make him valuable in FanGM is being able to effectively play both sides of the ball.

In FanGM, many people would argue that while still important, secondary is the least important of all positions. Considering this discussion is regarding what to do with Hunter in FanGM, it is important to note that.

What makes Hunter a top 5 pick in our leagues will be the potential for him to play WR & CB. Without that, I think he will likely stay out of the top 15 in most leagues.

GMs should be rewarded with a guy who can play both positions (with a separate rating for each) while only taking up one roster spot if they draft him.

I feel that it's important for Hunter to be as unique in these leagues as he will potentially be in NFL.

If Hunter only plays one position in the NFL, keep it that way here. If not, he should absolutely be treated as a special case.

[Heffay72]

If were talking about Travis Hunter, I'm a yes for both positions grades, if he plays 10 snaps/game at both positions. If the 3rd option includes rb to rec or Dbs to F7 I'm a no. Which is the third option talking about?

[Rumpy]

I think 10 is to low

I was curious how many times Kyle Juszcyzky lines up places and Snap count per game in 2023 has him at 9.8 Snaps per game as RB/FB 12 as TE and 3 as WR.

If we use option 3 he would be eligible at FB/RB and TE/WR.

Is that what we are trying to implement here?

Guys that line up everywhere get multiple position ratings?

[JonC]

If we use option 3 he would be eligible at FB/RB and TE/WR.

Is that what we are trying to implement here?

Guys that line up everywhere get multiple position ratings?

The conversation on Hunter is wildly different from this.

In your example, all positions played are offensive. Yuuus plays a significant percentage of offensive snaps and should definitely be eligible both places, IMO.

Hunter is a different breed in that if he plays 95-100% of defensive snaps and is a 90 from Madden in 3 years, but runs 10 routes a game and makes 1 catch for 8 yards, I don't think our league should allow a team the benefit of his 90 grade to their WR room to bolster percentages across the board.

The average NFL WR plays 60-70% of offensive snaps according to the response I got from AI when I loaded WR snap count data. High volume/elite guys are obviously higher, but you get a lot of 4th/5th WR who see way fewer snaps (with much lower madden grades as well).

From our rules:

Those grades are primarily used in calculating an area strength grade for different position groups on your team. You can see that in the team depth chart. For receivers, it uses 2 WRs + 2 WR/TE + backup. The 4 starting-level players (whether 2WR/2TE or 3WR/1TE or 4 WRs) count twice as much as the receiver backup grade toward the receiver area average. It just uses the highest grades for this calculation of starting players for the highest average. For offensive line, it's 5 starters + backup + FB/TE if help grade. You need a starting center, but otherwise some positional flexibility as tackles can fill in guard spot too but guards don't play tackle. Again the starting 5 OL count twice as much toward the positional average than the backup or FB or blocking TE. TEs can only count toward one area. TEs who catch a lot of passes are labeled TEWRs and only count toward the receiving grades, while regular TEs are blockers that just count toward OL grade if their grade is higher than the average otherwise. Defensive front 7 is 2 DE, DT/NT, 3 LB, DT/LB (3-4 or 4-3) + DL/LB backup, with the starting front 7 counting twice as much as the backup. Secondary is four CB/S starters + backup with the same twice as much value on starting grades.

A FB isn't allowed to help the OL grade except as a backup. I would love to see Hunter's situation handled like this unless he's playing something like 50% of offensive snaps:
You get his stats, but his grade only helps as the backup, meaning it's 1/2 as impactful as other starters.

[Rumpy]

So you think Juszyzyk

Should be eligible at

RB/FB
OL
WR/TE

You want him eligible at all 3 positions is that what you are voting yes to?

Because that’s insane to me …

[Goodell]

Speaking of multiple positions, before we open up a new league year with free agency and other decisions, we'll attempt to modify some of the positional flexibility even beyond this poll question. Things like if a particular offensive lineman should still retain eligibility a couple different positions along the line. I believe there might be more resources available now to help in some of those decisions than years ago. I someone has an eligibility listed because they were a Tackle in college for example and now a |G|T| here, if they've never played a down at tackle in the NFL should just be guard now, and so on.

For those interested in lending hands more, that's a big job to analyze and make some recommendations on adjustments to player eligibilities. Definitely feel free to make a list and would be great the more data and tools we have to fine tune some of the positional eligibility to help ensure we've got sim players listed at their actual positions they actually play games at (and not just where they used to play in college years ago).

[larry linke]

For anyone who has Pro Football Focus they break OL down by RT, RG, C, LG and RT.

If we can get a group of 8 guys we can all be responsible for 4 NFL teams. Once we get it done before the beginning of the season the maintenance wouldn't be so bad as a GM could submit a request to have a OL checked if he feels he has played another position.

Larry
AFFL, BRFL and FFFL