Off-Season Rules Discussion

[jerrydlux]

instead of qb ltc being 50% of the franchise tag we could increase that to 75% which would make the minimum in the low 17's before signing bonus.

[soonertf]

I'm not sure I'm following. For curiosity. I just looked what Case Keenum would cost to LTC and it would be close to $20m (including signing bonus) per year for 4 years. Are we saying that's not high enough? Seems plenty high to me.

[tino38]

I'm not sure I'm following. For curiosity. I just looked what Case Keenum would cost to LTC and it would be close to $20m (including signing bonus) per year for 4 years. Are we saying that's not high enough? Seems plenty high to me.

Take a look at all of the free agent QBs in all of the leagues. If Sam Bradford, Phillip Rivers, Alex Smith, and Drew Brees all get hit with the current LTC price tag for QBs, they will all sign in the DFFL for about $3-5 million less than they are worth in real life.

The same can be said for Jimmy Garrapolo in the AFFL and EFFL. Case Keenum, and Matt Ryan in the CFFL. Andy Dalton in the AFFL. Derek Carr in the EFFL and FFFL.

[jerrydlux]

I'm not sure I'm following. For curiosity. I just looked what Case Keenum would cost to LTC and it would be close to $20m (including signing bonus) per year for 4 years. Are we saying that's not high enough? Seems plenty high to me.

Take a look at all of the free agent QBs in all of the leagues. If Sam Bradford, Phillip Rivers, Alex Smith, and Drew Brees all get hit with the current LTC price tag for QBs, they will all sign in the DFFL for about $3-5 million less than they are worth in real life.

The same can be said for Jimmy Garrapolo in the AFFL and EFFL. Case Keenum, and Matt Ryan in the CFFL. Andy Dalton in the AFFL. Derek Carr in the EFFL and FFFL.

I think that may even be a low estimate. Garoppolo just got a 27.5 mil per year deal and a current LTC in CFFL would give him base salary of 11,594,500 (the minimum which is 50% of the franchise tag) then throw in 5 year signing bonus and he is still is only 16.233 mil per year (5 year LTC)

[Goodell]

The last time we discussed the minimum bar for QB LTCs in 2016, setting at 50% got vast majority 26 votes to only 4 votes for 75% and 4 votes for 100% tag value minimums.

We can look into that again, though, and see if further adjustment to the minimum bars needed. We have to be carefully find the right balance, though, as I don't know that we want to make it impossible to extend a lesser starting QB at a market rate for someone of their grade, but at the same time we don't want way under-market deals as league-generated contract options for higher quality players. My hope was the market prices it uses to generate those would eventually make minimums not so much of a factor ahead if the market-calculated averages were higher than the minimums anyway.

[tino38]

The last time we discussed the minimum bar for QB LTCs in 2016, setting at 50% got vast majority 26 votes to only 4 votes for 75% and 4 votes for 100% tag value minimums.

We can look into that again, though, and see if further adjustment to the minimum bars needed. We have to be carefully find the right balance, though, as I don't know that we want to make it impossible to extend a lesser starting QB at a market rate for someone of their grade, but at the same time we don't want way under-market deals as league-generated contract options for higher quality players. My hope was the market prices it uses to generate those would eventually make minimums not so much of a factor ahead if the market-calculated averages were higher than the minimums anyway.

Thanks Commish. Looking into the contract values to see if they are reasonable with the NFL and the salary cap increases within the NFL was mainly what I was after when I first posted.

[jerrydlux]

The last time we discussed the minimum bar for QB LTCs in 2016, setting at 50% got vast majority 26 votes to only 4 votes for 75% and 4 votes for 100% tag value minimums.

We can look into that again, though, and see if further adjustment to the minimum bars needed. We have to be carefully find the right balance, though, as I don't know that we want to make it impossible to extend a lesser starting QB at a market rate for someone of their grade, but at the same time we don't want way under-market deals as league-generated contract options for higher quality players. My hope was the market prices it uses to generate those would eventually make minimums not so much of a factor ahead if the market-calculated averages were higher than the minimums anyway.

Could we tier the LTC based on rating?

QB 71-75 = 60% of Franchise Tag (basically taking a risk that the player will develop)
QB 76-80 = 65%
QB 81-85 = 70%
QB 86+ = 75%

Just a quick idea and would probably still be lower than real life contracts but would help eliminate those lower deals.

Maybe make it so you cant trade an LTC'd player in year one no matter how many years you sign the deal for (I know I have used this strategy before but it is unrealistic)

[Goodell]

Some interesting ideas. There isn't a lot of free time for massive programming changes (but some). We also try to keep things from getting overwhelmingly complicated and more straightforward, but good to have some ideas to think about further.

[Goodell]

Perhaps a reasonable compromise that's very easy to implement might be slightly changing the 50% minimum to something else. We had a poll a couple of years ago with very little support for going to 75% or 100% where 50% was by far the most supported. It may be different now. But I was quickly able to change the 50% to 66% in the LTC generator for non-elite QB minimums, and it shows that figure now in the LTC quotes. It's not going all the way to 75% which is the bar we use for elite graded players, but is a little boost up from the 50% close to splitting the difference going to 2/3 value. Elite grade players, whether QBs or not, get 75%.

At the 66% bar, QB getting LTC would have to be at least based upon $15.305M. With SBs added for several more M per year, that doesn't sound unreasonably low as the lowest amount to sign any QB to LTC approaching 20M/yr.

People can look at the new figures with the minimum moved up a little while we're still frozen and no moves possible yet, and we'll see if much objection to that move if some think too much or too little. Hopefully getting close to right enough for most.

[jerrydlux]

any thoughts on a no trade clause for year one?

I know ive used it as a tactic to use my excess cap space to do it and trade that player for picks but I realize its not a realistic practice