2016 RULES: LTC

[Onyxgem]

Rebel,

We actually discussed this previously.


I don't believe it would be a difficult fix. With QB's... just take the top 3 and average those when doing the QB contracts.

Not even starting QB is worth top 3 QB salaries PERIOD.

[Jared A]

It would be top 3 close to their grade.

[Jared A]

That would make Kaepernick's just under 8 mil per year.


The problem is, there aren't enough QB's in the league to do an average of the top 10.


Basically, if you have a QB who's grade is an 87... the average of the top 10 at his position is VERY low...

[Jared A]

Let me continue this...

The entire point of the LTC is to take similar/comparable players... examine their salaries and then provide an estimate on what they would deserve. For the most part, it works reasonably well at every position except QB. The reason it doesn't work at QB is that there aren't enough QB's in the league that make decent money.


If a starting QB happens to be just under where most other starting QB's grades are... he ends up getting a bunch of backups as his average. It isn't an issue that will go away... it's an issue that will always be there, and might as well get fixed now rather than later.

[jerrydlux]

I agree Jared and your explanation makes sense. How much would that average change if it was just the top 5 qbs? Or maybe extending the range for averages of qbs.. example being if Kaep is an 81, take the average up through 86 instead of 83, this will grab a few higher qbs and weed out a couple of those backups. And, as we all know, a team does not HAVE to LTC anyone, so letting a player hit FA is not the end of the world because teams have the final vote on bidding higher for their own players.

[Onyxgem]

Let me continue this...

The entire point of the LTC is to take similar/comparable players... examine their salaries and then provide an estimate on what they would deserve. For the most part, it works reasonably well at every position except QB. The reason it doesn't work at QB is that there aren't enough QB's in the league that make decent money.


If a starting QB happens to be just under where most other starting QB's grades are... he ends up getting a bunch of backups as his average. It isn't an issue that will go away... it's an issue that will always be there, and might as well get fixed now rather than later.

there are always going to be out of control contracts both good and bad, there are guys mid 80 rankings that are 12+ mil per, that is not normal, but they got that contract 2 years ago when they were 95+ rating, but now you got some mid to low 80 guy you are thinking about ltcing but his contract is at a stupid amount because of it...

at least when you are taking 10 salaries it lowest it a bit, if you only take 3 then you get 1 or even 2 that are stupid amounts then you get hosed from it big time

[Jared A]

QB's are different here... grades don't make one bit of difference to us. Real life is it.


Allowing a player who just signed a 120million dollar contract to sign one for 30million is a huge deal. It will screw up our finances.


That'll be 90 mil that the team saved, and can spent WAAAYYYY too much money on another player.



Those high values for overpriced players do happen regularly... just not with QB's. Since there are only 17 QB's who make more than 7 mil in real life.... players who are ready for a big pay day won't get paid.

[Ben C.]

For what it's worth, I don't think I would want Kap even at the contract we're discussing here. He's a bottom-quartile starting QB in my opinion, worth 3-4 million per year, but nothing more. So the LTC figure seems right to me.

[RebelFan]

So the only way to ltc a qb would be a franchise like # ?
I don't think that's right. What about middling QBs?

[Goodell]

Part of this might be me too sensitive to complaints. For me, if it's something lots of people complaining about (like some of the starting QB contracts), then let's fix it. Permanently going forward. If most don't want to change it, then let's most stop complaining about it. Seems to me lots more complaints to me about those than votes to fix and that's somewhat frustrating to me.

It's not something that'll be modified this year, but just getting thoughts on that while seeing some of the LTCs. If the league is going to put out these LTC options, it does not want them to be bad numbers. Some view some of these (particularly starting QBs) as that, some do not. Arguably a franchise starting QB isn't going to realistically sign a LTC for 5 years for under 5M when most of those in reality are 10-20M -- at least not without his agent seeing if other teams want to pay real starting QB money on the market instead of signing a lower LTC than most starting QBs get.

In the future especially if we expand LTCs and do not wish lots more bad contracts generated by league. I could see QBs using less than 10 similar grade players for it's average considering the uniqueness/importance of the position (perhaps cutting that to 5 for QBs) and that there are fewer with a wider difference between starters/bench than other spots. That might be a workable compromise that's fairly easy to implement and doesn't change much with current system other than QBs getting slightly different average calculation from less since less of them. Or I could also see possibly putting in salary floors for LTCs that hopefully wouldn't ever even come up except for the odd rare cases that have unique circumstances that lead to an LTC figure that many would question. As mentioned in the first post here, that might be something like starting grade QBs (80+) having an LTC floor of 1/2 a transition tag. Not a franchise tag level, not even a transition tag level, but half of that -- and that's only if the LTC numbers come in way low to trigger a floor figure for what's deemed reasonable to a starting player to consider in order to give up their ability to seek offers on the market.