TE grades

[Ulrich82]

I recognize that this is a tough issue to figure out, but I am wondering if there is anything we can do about how TE grades count.

I think traditionally, a TE/WR counts only toward the WR average, and a TE counts only toward the offense line grade. This makes sense in many cases, but there are certain TEs known for the hands and blocking. For example, using PFF grades last year:

Tony Gonzalez and Heath Miller were the top two receiving TEs by PFF, but both were average to bad pass blockers and two of the worst run blocking TE's in the NFL.

On the other hand, Delanie Walker and Daniel Fells were generally excellent blocking TEs who were terrible to average in the pass game.

However, guys like Dwayne Allen and Rob Gronkowski (and to a lesser extend Marcedes Lewis, Jason Witten, Martellus Bennet, and Jimmy Graham) were good to excellent in both aspects.

I know we don't go by PFF grades. I was just using them to cross check blocking ratings. Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how we could better incorporate TE rankings into both aspects. I don't think it is a stretch to argue that Gronk should be able to help both my WRs and Oline, but I see the grey area this brings up in the game. Maybe letter TE grades count to the offensive line 1 time rater then twice like an offensive line starter (maybe this is how we already do it?)?

Just trying to brainstorm here how best to use these guys.

[gmen43]

I agree, NFL teams have both receiving TE and blocking TE and some have one guy who can do both. As mentioned above some TE's who just block get no love from madden ratings and therefore are useless in our league as their blocking skills go unused/unneeded. Maybe we can have a TE/OL position where we can use the blocking grade of a tight end as a backup OL in addition to the traditional pass catching TE position

[Goodell]

For the moment, we are using a particular grading service. Maybe that changes one day, and it's something to definitely think/talk about toward future changes, but for the near future it's the only feasible option.

Someone mentioned maybe TE/OL position. How it works is a TE is either a 'TEWR' (where he's a strong pass-catching asset) or he's a regular 'TE' where he's more of the blocking or not passing impact player. One type goes toward the receivers and the other goes toward the blocker grades. There is no real way to do it differently right now with our current grading system I don't think, but am open to thoughts toward future seasons or different grade determinations. Making a TE count towards both blocking/catching is something considered at one point, but would arguably make TE's the most important players in the game arguably here if they count toward everything all the time for all. Some WRs are excellent blockers as well, and they don't get that credit in the system either. Some lineman are much better for/against the run versus the pass. Many of these complexities cannot be factored in really in a one grade system at the moment.

We only have one overall grade for players that gets updated that we have public access to. The way we do it now with the only overall TE grade going toward one or the other seemed like the most logical and efficient thing to do within out limited grade system for the time being all things considered.

[Ulrich82]

I understand. I don't advocate for the switch to PFF grades because I think they would be very difficult to normalize to our system. I just was trying to show somewhat objective evidence that many TE's are known for their contributions both as blockers and receivers (as opposed to just trying to give a personal opinion).

I am more just wondering if anyone has any good idea on how to improve our blocking metric. I imagine tracking Madden run and pass blocking ratings is too difficult and also might not give the full picture of an offensive lineman's ability (for example, for game balance issues, Madden might have an average offensive lineman with very good blocking grades but very low speed or agility which might make it difficult for him to block at the second level or deal with agile pass rushers in-game).

[Goodell]

I don't think we could switch to those grades even if we wanted too, though, as they aren't free and available to the public. If it's the one I'm thinking about, I've contacted some premium grading alternative services in the recent past with no interest.

The only number that's updated throughout the year publically, I believe, is the one overall value grade we use. A player might have a fantastic blocking sub-grade, for example, in preseason and have a horrible season where his overall drops 10 points but they don't publish what his blocking sub-grade has been modified also so if we used that he'd stay at a great blocker since that grade isn't updated like his overall that dropped so far. We have limited information available publically.

We may have another grading system some day, but for now it's just the one overall grade that's available to us consistently and publically in a regularly updated manner.