Offensive line averages

[lucky7jc]

WAIT - WAIT - WAIT

Let's put in a rule that states RT are more important for left handed quarterbacks!!!

just to throw some humor in here for everyone and to close the convo out to say we're all a bunch of whiny bitches.

[stevebarrett24]

When does a TE/FB help out your grade just curious because I have an all-pro FB and he doesn't help my grade at all. I am just interested how this part works.

[Jared A]

It's supposed to, any time his grade is BETTER than your average offensive line grade.

[Goodell]

Yeah, unless I was looking at it wrong the FB was 6.5 grade and OL grade is 6.6 overall. Including a lower grade than the average would only bring the overall average down (although in this case since both about equal it probably would have no impact) so it won't include FB since he's less than the average otherwise. If the FB was 7.0 grade instead, it would include it since higher than the OL average without him and he'd improve the overall average in that case.

[sportznut]

WAIT - WAIT - WAIT

Let's put in a rule that states RT are more important for left handed quarterbacks!!!

just to throw some humor in here for everyone and to close the convo out to say we're all a bunch of whiny bitches.

Pipe down Lucifer.

[stevebarrett24]

Yeah, unless I was looking at it wrong the FB was 6.5 grade and OL grade is 6.6 overall. Including a lower grade than the average would only bring the overall average down (although in this case since both about equal it probably would have no impact) so it won't include FB since he's less than the average otherwise. If the FB was 7.0 grade instead, it would include it since higher than the OL average without him and he'd improve the overall average in that case.

Okay was just wondering thought maybe the full back would be used instead of a lower rated ol.

[Ulrich82]

I'd hate to see us start to overvalue any one position on the offensive line. I am fine with the current method, or would be fine with "2T/2G/1C + backup" or "1T/1G/1C + 2 starters".

There is ample evidence from advanced metric analysis that the emphasis on left tackles was/is largely media driven. As Jared pointed out, teams are sometimes moving their best pass rusher to match up against the RT. And some believe RT is more important to protect the blind side of left-handed QBs. The Giants and other teams have started playing DE's in the middle of the line on passing downs. The idea is the DE is more athletic and can beat the slower interior lineman. This is why I think the hyper-athletic Jonathan Cooper might be the prototype guard of the future (purely opinion there, but it is true that teams are using more athletic guys to beat slower guards which leads to a demand for better pass blocking guards).

I don't think this tells the whole story, but look at the LT of the past several Super Bowl Champions.
2012: Baltimore Ravens: Michael Oher played 14 games at LT and was ProFootballFocus' 57th best tackle.
2011: New York Giants - William Beatty (33rd, 21st out of LTs) and David Diehl (69th)
2010: GB Packers - Chad Clifton (33rd)
2009: Saints - Bushrod (69th)
2008: Steelers - Starks (22nd)
In fact, only 2 of PFF's top 10 Left Tackles in 2012 (and 6 of the top 20) were in the playoffs last season.

I know this isn't an exact study, but it is anecdotal to the idea that LT is somewhat overrated in the NFL.

[Jared A]

That's probably because good teams can't draft in the top 5

[Ulrich82]

That certainly is a factor. As I said, I'm not a huge fan of the "X previous SB champions didn't do it that way." I just was trying to make the point that there are smart football people who thing LT is extremely important, but there are also smart football people who believe that the LT thing is an outdated idea (perhaps it has been outdated since LT stopped being a nightmare for LTs).

Also, I suspect that Madden grades already reflect some bias towards the perceived value of certain position groups (I bet there are fewer elite C's than LT's in Madden, but I have not verified this). For example, David Diehl spent the second half of 2011 as a terrible LT on a Super Bowl winning team. He then spent 2012 as a below average RT for the same team. However, Madden still had him as an 85 by the end of the season (based on ProFootballFocus' numbers and reports I've read from various offensive line talent evaluators), I'd argue mainly on name recognition alone. He took a massive paycut in the offseason just to remain with the Giants, so I doubt they view him as anything more than an average tackle at best. His 2013 Madden grade will likely reflect that, but still I can argue he's been highly overrated for two seasons now.

My main point is, I don't think we should start counting any single position on the offensive line with more weight. "LT is king" is not a proven argument a some believe.