FanGM

Increasingly the NFL involves players with hybrid roles. Some move around on the defense from safety at times and coming up as a linebacker in other formations or have moved back and forth between those positions at various seasons (like a Isaiah Simmons). Deebo Samuel's a star WR but often lines up in the backfield as a RB gaining nearly 400 yards with 8 TDs rushing the ball. Cordarrelle Patterson has been a WR and now officially listed as RB in the league, but his team refers to him and uses as RB/WR hybrid. Najee Harris and Austin Ekeler had over 70 catches more than some starting receivers on their teams. A couple seasons ago, Austin Ekeler had over 90 receptions for nearly 1000 receiving yards as was more the receiver paired with another RB who ran it more.

The tricky thing with LB/S is that they'd impact two different grades listed that way. But if they actually really do play a lot of the game in both of those roles, maybe they should? Or does that make them too valuable more than reality?

Even if a RB who got a lot of catches wasn't able to help in the receiver grade, their many catches in the game stats would help in the sim game. But if their grade has a lot to do with their ability as a top pass-catcher, shouldn't having a top pass catching back be beneficial for your receiver grade? Or does it make those RBs too valuable beyond what they should be?

If you have Deebo Samuel on your roster and he's rushing for TDs, should you also be able to include him as a RB if you didn't have a lot of RB depth otherwise and maybe give him the rock more on your sim team as a runner?

The default position as stated elsewhere in the forum is that we'll probably simplify our positional eligibility a bit this season, especially with more off-season activity opening up soon, and focus more on primary position for players to avoid them double helping in different areas. But if a strong majority of GMs want to recognize those contributions to other areas and factor those into the depth chart averages somehow, we may look at adjusting that slightly before free agency opens.

One way to do it might be how we treat FBs toward the OL grade. A FB cannot replace a starting or backup OL. You OL grade is based still largely on that even if you have a good FB. But if you have a bad OL grade (or maybe hit with injuries driving your grade down), and if your FB has a higher grade than your 6 lineman OL average otherwise, then they get added to the average and could help it a little.

One way for LB/S might be that they could be full starters at their first listed position (front 7 in that example), but could also add to the secondary grade beyond the other 5 secondary players who primarily make up that grade.

For RB/WR or WR/RB, maybe a line set like 60 receptions for a RB (4 last year) can earn you RB/WR eligibility to help the receiver grade possibly (not nearly as much as starting receivers or replacing any WR/TE grades but adding to the average like a backup receiver).

Just seeing if any consensus with that topic.

I don’t think the grade should apply to multiple positions. For WR or RB, you get receiving and rushing stats as part of update. That should be the value, not the grade.

I think they should count. If a TE catching 40 passes a year can help a WR grade, why can’t a RB? I don’t care how often he splits out. Give me a previous season reception floor and I’m 100% on board. What’s fair…3 Rec/game? How many RB averaged that? Still traveling, so sorry if that’s rambling!

I am not the smartest guy in these leagues and never played organized football at any level but this whole debate defies commons sense to me. Madden graded Ekeler as a HB and gave him an 86 grade. Ekeler played 731 snaps and split out on 75 of them, roughly 10% but people are saying he deserves a WR grade the same as Odell Beckham, Robert Woods and D J Moore and 1 less than A J Brown.

Let's do Zeke Elliot who is rated 88. Played 853 snaps and split out on 85, a true 10%. This rule would give him a WR rating the same as Adam Thielen, Chris Godwin and Tyler Lockett. Crazy, right. It gets worse.

Adam Jones is rated 90 and out of 620 snaps went wide on 92. His rating would be the same as Justin Jefferson and Terry McLaurin.

Alvin Kamara is rated as a 91 and out of 627 snaps he went wide on 119. His rating would be the same as Michael Thomas and Amari Cooper.

(To be coninued)

Lastly is Joe Mixon who is rated as a 93 and out of 884 snaps he went wide on 82. His rating is the same as Keenan Allen who along with Justin Jefferson, made the Pro Bowl. So in this scenario Joe Mixon gets all pro stats as a RB but also gets all pro rating as a WR for somebody's depth chart.

People here are believing that a guy who played 10% of his snaps as a WR deserves the same rating as a Pro Bowl WR but also get his above average stats as a RB, the stats that earned the rating in the first place.

Mind boggling, simply mind boggling.

Larry (again)

Drop it larry

Again, I don't think they need full wr impact but rather that they should still factor in to the wr grade.

Ekeler was targeted 94 times, same as Najee Harris. He also only ran the ball around 200 times...similar to Aaron Jones.

I feel you are hung up on how many times they line up as a WR which is too simple.

There also isn't a huge benefit to the rb getting their real life receiving stats factored into the sim...they don't translate 1:1, they have to fit somewhere in the parameters of the qbs game.

I'm on my phone now and can't pull all the stats but imagine if I have ekeler have 80 receiving yards and 2 tds...jamaar chase goes for 200 and 2 and mark Andrews 100and 1.

But Justin fields throws for 79 yards.

My strong receiving team becomes a boost for my poor quarterbacking....but won't come anywhere near what those real life stats added up to.

In the depth chart its referred to as a receiver strength grade and I would definitely say that Rb's contribute to most NFL passing offenses. The argument to where a RB lines up is irrelevant when you consider that most TE's line up on the line and they are contributing to the receiving grade. Really we should just be talking about a update to our formula to only include the elite receiving backs. Personally I'd love to see the league embrace these hybrid type players which will make them more sought after in the draft and free agency.

So how do you define an elite receiving back? I think it quickly becomes the TEWR argument down that road.

RB's should definitely not have their full ratings used as receiving rates. They are not rated that high for their receiving talents. Basically I agree with what Larry said. Using a percentage of their rates might be the solution?
And I'm not sure if setting a catch or target limit is the best solution to determine dual positions, given injuries can impact that. The best receiving back in the league, CMC, isn't a dual position...