2015 RULES: Free Agency (Clock and First Bidders)

[Knighty Knight]

I'm in multiple baseball sim leagues where offers are emailed in to the league and a group of people sort through with a ton of man hours devoted during that free agency period. I setup this league setting out to do something different, more automated, easier to run all season with the system managing that under the same automated tools without having to have a human manager for it all. I couldn't have this league running if I had to manage free agency manually.

So I'd initially not be inclined probably to recreate the problems I personally saw in those types of more manual processes in other leagues I was in leading me to create a different way. I was more interested in setting up an open market place of bids managed by a system.

The other big problem I had with the baseball sim leagues i'm in sending in "best offers" is the guessing game involved in that. I send in 1.5M but someone else sends in 1.51M and they win because they guessed better or added an extra .01 on it. I aimed for a less secretive, more open bidding system initially where people with similar opinions about a players worth could bid that out in an open market. Trying to replicate real situations and open negotiations between most interested teams more than setting up secret silent auctions.

Open to other suggestions and thoughts, but that was why things intentionally setup differently than other leagues I'm in. If I was just going to replicate everything all the other leagues I'm in for the most part, I probably wouldn't have setup this league. Someone else could setup a football league like that with groups of people with more time doing lots of manual processes like that. For me, this league setup to create improved tools that didn't rely upon finding people with lots of time to run manual processes always.

I understand your concerns which is why I asked if automating that process would be a possibility. If so I think it's a direction that needs to be considered. If not I am completely ok working out the kinks we come across in our current model.

Yeah it would be more of a guessing game as in the example you gave, that would be the trade off I suppose and maybe that is a deal breaker.

[Goodell]

Yeah it would be more of a guessing game as in the example you gave, that would be the trade off I suppose and maybe that is a deal breaker.

Not a deal-breaker so much as just one of the reasons I thought there has to be a better way when I started this trying to setup something different (better ideally at least in my view). Certainly people are different and lots of opinions about what's best, which is why we try to open it up for these discussions. The more we know about all the different opinions and different options the better.

I just personally hated that guessing aspect of the other leagues I was in personally. Some of those leagues I'm in have opened it up more recently where it starts with that best bid guess game and then opens it up after that into much more open market bidding for those that qualify, and I think that's improved those leagues personally. Just think we created a better system for that more open market bidding here with this automated system than bid wars via message board posts with manual updates of that process like the other leagues I'm in.

At the beginning our way was seen highly positively by most of the people who were in both kinds of leagues when asked. Most of my other leagues are moving closer toward a more open system too generally speaking. We could take the temperature on that again to see if major shifts desired by most, but for the most part we've still kept with that main open system and kept adding tweaks to it along the way.

[Ben C.]

Thanks for the suggestions. Some of that sounds a lot like some of the multiple baseball sim leagues I'm in (and probably many others here) where offers are emailed in to the league and a group of people sort through with a ton of man hours devoted during that free agency period. I setup this league setting out to do something different, more automated, easier to run all season with the system managing that under the same automated tools without having to have a human manager for it all. I couldn't have this league running if I had to manage free agency manually.

Maybe that could be less manual than other leagues have to do it, but the other big problem I had with the baseball sim leagues i'm in (or the silent auction methodsending in "best offers") is the guessing game involved in that. I send in 1.5M but someone else sends in 1.51M and they win because they guessed better or added an extra .01 on it. I aimed for a less secretive, more open bidding system initially where people with similar opinions about a players worth could bid that out in an open market. Trying to replicate real situations and open negotiations between most interested teams more than setting up secret silent auctions. I disagree about private silent auctions being more realistic than capitalistic open market bidding.

So I'd initially not be inclined probably to recreate the problems I personally saw in those processes in other leagues I was in leading me to create a different way. I was more interested in setting up an open market place of bids managed by a system.

Welcome the different opinions and open to other suggestions and thoughts (although it would take quite a bit of work to not just tweak but rebuild our free agency tools from scratch again realistically), but that all was why things intentionally setup differently than other leagues I'm in. If I was just going to replicate everything all the other leagues I'm in do for the most part, I probably wouldn't have setup this league. Someone else could setup a football league like that with groups of people with more time doing lots of manual processes like that. For me, this league setup to create improved tools that didn't rely upon finding people with lots of time to run manual processes always.

Just a quick note to say I 100% support the public auction format we have currently for all of the reasons given by Goodell here.

[Leb]

While getting out bid last minute is frustrating, I would not change the open nature of peak free agency mainly because to me it seems to be a function of 5 bids per 24 rule which I don't have any many problems with. In peak free agency, there are clear clumps of first thing in the morning bidders, lunchtime, and late night bidders so a player could get bid up three times before I have his bid free. If he is out of my price range after those, I move to option b, who as a lower rated player has probably attracted less bids and maybe only has a bid from my original clump. I have no option but to last minute bid even though I intended to bid on him as soon as option a was out of my price range. We do not have the opportunity to react to market feedback immediately or simultaneously bid on duplicate players which the potential to retract bids to option b if option a signs. Planning to have a bid free in time to get in an offer before the deadline is part of the strategy to compensate for this. Additionally, most of the last minute bids seem to be happening because the player has an unrealistic contract (such as a 3-year minimum salary for a solid starter) in the early part of peak free agency that the player would not quickly take in real life without continuing to shop around. So overall, I don't have any major problems with peak free agency that require complication to the current system.

But I would like to see changes to camp/preseason, in-season deals, and UDFAs. I think we should completely eliminate the signing soon page and current offer line under the player name to keep all offers behind the scenes during this period. These players are generally not going to be shopping around during this time so they are likely to take the first offer that comes around. However, as we all cannot spend every hour on the site throughout the day, I would still like to see a 24 hour clock so there is still competition and opportunity to get a player just not through lazy means of looking at who is being offered. Make it so you have to submit a bid before you can see if the player has an offer. If your bid is lower, return an error message with the leading bid, which you can choose to outbid (net cost 1 bid) or retract the previous offer (net cost 0 bids). Just an idea, as these are the players I get most frustrated at losing out on because teams should be able to get them cheaply.

[Knighty Knight]

I also enjoy the format we currently have just open towards discussing possible solutions to current concerns. All the problems with an private bidding alternative are valid. It might be a deal breaker because I might, or other GMs, could decided changing from an open to a private bid system isn't worth the issues a private system would create. I mean, the more I think about the open system we have the more I like it compared to a private system.

[robroach]

I would be against sealed or private bids for free agents. I have played that in another football sim and I like the way it is done here much, much better.

My two cents otherwise:


I pretty much like the way things are now.

I can see a scenario where everybody is watching a pre-season game and a no name undrafted player makes an interception or catches a TD and immediately one of us is the first to open up the computer and make a bid. There shouldn't be an advantage for that.

What about a scenario, once the season starts, to where on Saturdays you can sign a player without bidding. The caveat would be that the player would have to have been a free agent for over 48 hours. Meaning if I have an injury and need a player for the following Sunday, I could sign a player quickly. Also, very few transactions take place on Saturday in real life. Most during the season take place Monday, Tuesday, and sometimes Wednesday.

[larry linke]

I would vote to keep it as is. This system is not perfect but it is pretty darn close. I still don't like anonymous bidding. A lot of people's concerns regarding bids would be alleviated if a GM had to attach his name to every bid.

Larry
Minnesota AFFL

[stevebarrett24]

I like it the way it is now. The last minute bidding doesn't bother me.

[tetonka12]

While getting out bid last minute is frustrating, I would not change the open nature of peak free agency mainly because to me it seems to be a function of 5 bids per 24 rule which I don't have any many problems with. In peak free agency, there are clear clumps of first thing in the morning bidders, lunchtime, and late night bidders so a player could get bid up three times before I have his bid free. If he is out of my price range after those, I move to option b, who as a lower rated player has probably attracted less bids and maybe only has a bid from my original clump. I have no option but to last minute bid even though I intended to bid on him as soon as option a was out of my price range. We do not have the opportunity to react to market feedback immediately or simultaneously bid on duplicate players which the potential to retract bids to option b if option a signs. Planning to have a bid free in time to get in an offer before the deadline is part of the strategy to compensate for this. Additionally, most of the last minute bids seem to be happening because the player has an unrealistic contract (such as a 3-year minimum salary for a solid starter) in the early part of peak free agency that the player would not quickly take in real life without continuing to shop around. So overall, I don't have any major problems with peak free agency that require complication to the current system.

But I would like to see changes to camp/preseason, in-season deals, and UDFAs. I think we should completely eliminate the signing soon page and current offer line under the player name to keep all offers behind the scenes during this period. These players are generally not going to be shopping around during this time so they are likely to take the first offer that comes around. However, as we all cannot spend every hour on the site throughout the day, I would still like to see a 24 hour clock so there is still competition and opportunity to get a player just not through lazy means of looking at who is being offered. Make it so you have to submit a bid before you can see if the player has an offer. If your bid is lower, return an error message with the leading bid, which you can choose to outbid (net cost 1 bid) or retract the previous offer (net cost 0 bids). Just an idea, as these are the players I get most frustrated at losing out on because teams should be able to get them cheaply.

I second this.

[tetonka12]

While getting out bid last minute is frustrating, I would not change the open nature of peak free agency mainly because to me it seems to be a function of 5 bids per 24 rule which I don't have any many problems with. In peak free agency, there are clear clumps of first thing in the morning bidders, lunchtime, and late night bidders so a player could get bid up three times before I have his bid free. If he is out of my price range after those, I move to option b, who as a lower rated player has probably attracted less bids and maybe only has a bid from my original clump. I have no option but to last minute bid even though I intended to bid on him as soon as option a was out of my price range. We do not have the opportunity to react to market feedback immediately or simultaneously bid on duplicate players which the potential to retract bids to option b if option a signs. Planning to have a bid free in time to get in an offer before the deadline is part of the strategy to compensate for this. Additionally, most of the last minute bids seem to be happening because the player has an unrealistic contract (such as a 3-year minimum salary for a solid starter) in the early part of peak free agency that the player would not quickly take in real life without continuing to shop around. So overall, I don't have any major problems with peak free agency that require complication to the current system.

But I would like to see changes to camp/preseason, in-season deals, and UDFAs. I think we should completely eliminate the signing soon page and current offer line under the player name to keep all offers behind the scenes during this period. These players are generally not going to be shopping around during this time so they are likely to take the first offer that comes around. However, as we all cannot spend every hour on the site throughout the day, I would still like to see a 24 hour clock so there is still competition and opportunity to get a player just not through lazy means of looking at who is being offered. Make it so you have to submit a bid before you can see if the player has an offer. If your bid is lower, return an error message with the leading bid, which you can choose to outbid (net cost 1 bid) or retract the previous offer (net cost 0 bids). Just an idea, as these are the players I get most frustrated at losing out on because teams should be able to get them cheaply.

I second this.