Sim question

[RyanM]

Also, is there a reason the QB grades aren't included in the calculation of the passing difference?

[Goodell]

The idea for adjusting a QB's game update is that if you surround your QB with a better cast of player in the simulation, that it should help his performance. Get your QB a better line; get your QB some better receivers -- all those things help your sim QB rise above what he does in reality with more weapons and protection here. If a QB's grade is rising on it's own (from Madden score improvement), it is likely already reflected in our game in reaction to good game updates triggering an improved score. But the adjustment is all about supporting cast around the player in this GM-based personnel game where you are trying to not only get good skill position leaders for their updates but really focused on the supporting cast to take those performances to a higher level on a better team around them.

So the adjustment to a QB or RB's game updates is more about teammate support improvements than his own grade. And here for guys who play on the field at QB and RB their actual production each week is more meaningful than their grade alone, otherwise an A rated QB/RB would never have a bad game on grade alone -- and a less respected player by lower grade could never have a strong game here if grades mattered more even if he put up the stats with a real strong performance. So we try to bring in the reality of those varrying performances each week more so than a QB/RB's static grade.

How the formulas are setup now, things are also kind of balanced out to get that mix of an equal number of factors on one side versus the other. OL + WR - F7 - SEC. It makes for a simple comparison of offensive help versus defensive opposition. Throw a QB's big grade on the other side and it messes up the numbers. I guess maybe you could break front 7 into two different scores for line and linebackers to get back to equal elements to compare if adding QB on the offensive side but in today's game LB/DE are almost one in the same on many teams and that's really even getting away from what is trying to be accomplished in the formula anyway. More than anything, we do that adjustment primarily to factor in a QB's supporting cast versus opposition strength to see if he should have an easier or harder time in our simulated environment. His own individual strength comes in with his game update each week and posting his real performances -- that are then adjusted based upon whether his situation is better or worse in the sim world to logically increase or decrease his performance somewhat based upon a different situation here than he has in reality.

[RyanM]

I understand that logic, but I would counter that grades should be considered from the standpoint that an average QB or RB IRL may be putting up better numbers because of the talent around them. I never thought FWP was that great of a RB, but he got good updates last year b/c the line was destroying people. A very good QB with a poor surrounding cast IRL (like Cutler) can get punished twice in the sim (once for bad numbers IRL & then again for a poor surrounding cast in sim), whereas an average QB (like Orton) has good updates IRL can get rewarded twice. My two cents:

RB grades should get added to OL grade for run.

QB+3WR+top RB+top TE+2nd TE/4th WR vs 3CBs+2Saf+2LBs+3rd LB/4th CB/3rd Saf for the passing updates.

I think there needs to be a separate metric for "pressure" on the QB that is comprised of OL vs F7.

Of course I don't have to write all the code either.........

[Goodell]

Not only do I hope to keep things fairly simple and straight-forward for the programming, but also for players understanding what's going on and how to build teams to win.

I understand that logic, but I would counter that grades should be considered from the standpoint that an average QB or RB IRL may be putting up better numbers because of the talent around them...

From the start I always wanted to add in an element of context for real game updates but has been too difficult before. Getting closer now and think I can have it incorporated next year.

That would hit upon that issue noted where a player's real supporting cast may be assisting his performance greatly, in that we would adjust the real game update based upon his real supporting cast versus his real opposition defense first, then take those adjusted figures from reality and adjust them further for sim conditions.

That gets at another problem or two also. Sometimes when two sim teams have most of the exact same players as realty (mostly in newer leagues with less movement or difference from reality so far) their sim result could be very different from the real result since we only rely upon static grades for supporting cast that may or may not have played well that day. Adding context to the real stats would help with that and better represent highly rated lines or defenses that had bad days on the game updates for skill position teammates to bring in more of that reality.

Additionally, in our first seasons a team like SD with a strong OL in reality and pretty much the same group in the sim really got a double-bonus for LT running the ball when it shouldn't logically. So even on bad games for LT with his extra grade advantage boost he'd almost never have an off game even if he did in reality, but if we take into context a bad game behind a great line in reality we can not give that undeserved boost in the sim.

The way I've always wanted to deal with that is look at LT's OL and opposing defense strength in reality and put his real figures into some context. A 100 yard game behind a great line against a poor defense in reality isn't the same as a 100 yard game against a strong defense behind a lower graded line.

So eventually it would compare the RB/QB's sim line versus his real line, and his sim opposing defense against his real opposing defense in the adjustment formula. But just takes working that out as well as the more involved keeping up with most of the NFL transactions to ensure their real team designation is always up to date also. I've updated those more regularly this season for doing the game updates by NFL team instead, and hope that with the competition committee helping more being able to keep good tabs on the real team assignments for players and incorporate that context for real numbers.

I think that gets at it more than what the player's madden individual score might be and adjusting his stats factoring in his personal grade because very often those grades are impacted by the stats built up also. Kyle Orton is the same human being this year as last year, but his grade is much different in a different system. If just going by madden grade to get at his real value, they shift his talent to a higher grade if he's in a better system with better players too. Theoretically they should keep his individual grade about the same but don't because they want his video version to play better if he's playing well on the field too.

In my intended way, if in reality he goes to a team with a better OL and better receivers against worse defenses, his real stats in his game update would be adjusted down for that situational context and then further adjusted for the sim roster differences as we do now.

[sportznut]

So what you're really saying is whiteshark should be stripped of the first ever championship.

I would agree.

Damn cheater.

[Goodell]

And there are situations still like that now because in most leagues there are teams with dominant OL grades and a good RB, and teams with dominant OL grades can almost be assured of not having a really bad rushing performance because of the frequent max advantage always applied to their rushers whether they had good games or not -- turning bad updates into okay ones, okay updates into good sim results, and good updates into great results. That's the idea behind the adjustment giving skill position players a boost if you improve their supporting cast, but if they have essentially the same cast strength as in reality, there shouldn't be any boost.

What should eventually happen next year is that when a good RB has a bad game behind a good line in reality, that he won't get any boost to his performance if he's behind a good line here too with grade advantage in the sim because he played poorly behind a highly graded line in reality that week with similar situation in both places and would get the update he actually earned instead of an improved versions of it as we do now with an adjustment that only factors sim rosters.