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Backup QB's fumbling when running

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:01 pm
by Ulrich82
I have one thing to point out from the CFFL SF vs GB week 1 game. Russell Wilson is my backup QB (for SF). In the NFL, he passed for 153 yard on 18 completions in 34 attempts. He also rushed 8 times for 20 yards with 1 fumble.

In the sim, as the backup, he did not throw a pass, but he entered as my 4th RB, rushing 4 times for 3 yards and a fumble.

I know there was a consensus to work to add backup players stats into the sim, and perhaps there are weeks where Wilson runs for a TD which would help me, but I worry about the QB fumbling as a RB4. I honestly don't know, but I suspect Wilson's NFL fumble was a strip sack. Obviously, there is no easy way to keep track of this in the box score, but I worry about how this may effect teams.

Here is a hypothetical. Some team has a generally considered elite QB like Brady and a backup like Kolb. What happens if in the NFL Kolb is flushed from the pocket twice and runs for 3 yards as a result. Let's say he also suffers a strip sack fumble at some point in the game. Will the sim punish the team with Kolb's fumble despite the fact that his rushing was completely accidental, and he shouldn't have been in the game in the first place?

By the way, I want to be clear that this isn't a major complaint. I just want to point out an area that may be an unintended consequence of the new emphasis on getting more players into the Sim. I don't entirely know how to fix it. If Wilson runs downfield and fumbles on the play, I think the fumble is fair game, but if he isn't in the game as a passer, I don't think he should be punished for a strip sack fumble.

Re: Backup QB's fumbling when running

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:28 pm
by Goodell
Might be some additional thinking to put to that. In the past, guys like Tebow/Kaepernick never saw the field unless they were designated QB starters. The NFL seems at little different now (at least in some places) where more and more guys like that are getting involved or having special plays, etc. We know the names and can differentiate between a Tebow and some other backup QB, but the computer doesn't know the real players and that a Tebow should be allowed to enter the game and contribute where some other backup QB shouldn't be. Unless we designate those guys with a different position or notation.

We don't ever take out our QBs in the sim unles they missed more than a half in reality and were marked as such in the game update. But in reality, sometimes a QB gets sacked hard and comes out for a play or series. That stuff isn't in the sim, but that's another reason (beyond the Tebow/Kapernick involvement) that I was okay at least initially allowing the computer to look for real updates from QB also to bring in as it's also not unreasonable that they might get a play or two every now and then even behind a great starter.

Some things to think about and shape there as we go. To start had it very basic for who to pull in -- mostly it takes the top rusher not one of your RBs in the depth chart and top receiver not designated otherwise. Sometimes that top rusher will be a QB with the thought that usually it'll be a Tebow type, but in some cases will another starting QB in reality and give them some play when they wouldn't otherwise. We can get more advanced and involved with that selection process over time, but there are always pros/cons. Say we tell it to not pick a QB for additional runner if he has 10+ passes or something also and seemingly some starting QB, well if Tebow ever got more time under center then it would automatically remove him also with that change. So it'll never be quite perfect unless we have a ton of human involvement like real games with more human understanding of some QBs different than others. It's mostly a calculator pushing around numbers adjusted by grades and pulling in associated names in a database. But we can reasonably think of ways to increasingly adjust over time.

As far as ignoring the fumble for a QB brought in for additionally running, might be possible but then you run into a case where Tebow could never fumble since he's a QB and often might be brought into the game similarly. So some things to think about... might just end up making some QBs a QB|RB and have the system not bring in any QBs for these additional guys beyond the depth chart except for those designated like that which could simplify things and make less odd replacements in some cases.